Cells

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Cells

Postby jytheitguy » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:05 am

If you took an aborted embryo and sent it to a lab to determine it's species, what would the test results show?
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Re: Cells

Postby afdavis 3 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:41 am

Just like fingerprints; human stem cells are unique in the animal kingdom (except for the fact that they are stem cells). So if the testing didn't include DNA testing, they would still be able to tell that the aborted zygotes were potential humans.
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Re: Cells

Postby jytheitguy » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:11 am

afdavis 3 wrote:Just like fingerprints; human stem cells are unique in the animal kingdom (except for the fact that they are stem cells). So if the testing didn't include DNA testing, they would still be able to tell that the aborted zygotes were potential humans.


Quite correct. Human. You have the same DNA when you're 100 minutes old as you do when you're 100 years old.

I'm asking because I knew the answer - which I'll always do. ;)

This is the proof needed to show that abortion is wrong, from a scientific standpoint. Discuss.

ME: Not religious. In fact, agnostic. Not big government wanting to control others. Quite the opposite.
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Re: Cells

Postby Nathan Sanders » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:38 am

jytheitguy wrote:
afdavis 3 wrote:Just like fingerprints; human stem cells are unique in the animal kingdom (except for the fact that they are stem cells). So if the testing didn't include DNA testing, they would still be able to tell that the aborted zygotes were potential humans.


Quite correct. Human. You have the same DNA when you're 100 minutes old as you do when you're 100 years old.

I'm asking because I knew the answer - which I'll always do. ;)

This is the proof needed to show that abortion is wrong, from a scientific standpoint. Discuss.

ME: Not religious. In fact, agnostic. Not big government wanting to control others. Quite the opposite.


Sorry but how does that prove a moral position on abortion?
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Re: Cells

Postby jytheitguy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:53 am

Nathan Sanders wrote:
jytheitguy wrote:
afdavis 3 wrote:Just like fingerprints; human stem cells are unique in the animal kingdom (except for the fact that they are stem cells). So if the testing didn't include DNA testing, they would still be able to tell that the aborted zygotes were potential humans.


Quite correct. Human. You have the same DNA when you're 100 minutes old as you do when you're 100 years old.

I'm asking because I knew the answer - which I'll always do. ;)

This is the proof needed to show that abortion is wrong, from a scientific standpoint. Discuss.

ME: Not religious. In fact, agnostic. Not big government wanting to control others. Quite the opposite.


Sorry but how does that prove a moral position on abortion?


It doesn't - it provides a scientific one. That is living, replicating human DNA which will likely grow into a fully developed, living human being. What about a cist, or cancer, don't they have human DNA? Yes, they do but they will not develop into a sentient human being. Cogito, ergo, sum.

Jean-Luc, you ARE familiar with the prime directive, are you not? :mrgreen:

There are surrounding circumstances an difficulties to discuss - but the above was my point.
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Re: Cells

Postby afdavis 3 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:13 am

The only thing is, in my opinion, if you consider abortion murder, then why not every other form of contraception (except abstinence)?
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Re: Cells

Postby jytheitguy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:40 am

afdavis 3 wrote:The only thing is, in my opinion, if you consider abortion murder, then why not every other form of contraception (except abstinence)?


It depends on the kind of contraception. Anything barrier based which prevents the egg from becoming fertilized is not murder since the fertilization and cell division did not occur.

Anything which allows the fertilization to happen and then doesn't allow the egg to attach, or flushes it out is murder too.

Again, not a religious argument. It's a scientific one. DNA defines species.
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Re: Cells

Postby Arcturus » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:11 am

afdavis 3 wrote:The only thing is, in my opinion, if you consider abortion murder, then why not every other form of contraception (except abstinence)?

If you could say that preventing the egg from being fertilised constitutes murder, then where do we stop? Is withdrawal during sex or coitus interuptus murder? Is menstruation murder? Is watching Red Tube with a box of tissues in one hand and a phallus in the other murder?
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Re: Cells

Postby 162 105 375 845 281 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:50 pm

Interesting way of looking at it. I'm sure the pro-abortion side has something else to counter, such as the 'extension of my body' viewpoint.

To the OP I would have said to look for an XX or XY chromosome setup, which would be DNA testing of a sort. But yeah.

I personally won't cast a vote for or against, because I don't feel that vote would be mine to cast as I am male and I have no kids and haven't had to abort any either. Sorry for the crude language if you take offense to that last statement.

There was something or another of a debate in the states about the woman hearing the embryo's heartbeat and whatnot. Gosh I thought, that must be rough. What if you had to have an abortion and you were forced to hear the heartbeat of the child-not-to-be? I couldn't imagine.
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Re: Cells

Postby afdavis 3 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:24 am

Arcturus wrote:If you could say that preventing the egg from being fertilised constitutes murder, then where do we stop? Is withdrawal during sex or coitus interuptus murder? Is menstruation murder? Is watching Red Tube with a box of tissues in one hand and a phallus in the other murder?


That is exactly what I'm talking about.

162 105 375 845 281 wrote:There was something or another of a debate in the states about the woman hearing the embryo's heartbeat and whatnot. Gosh I thought, that must be rough. What if you had to have an abortion and you were forced to hear the heartbeat of the child-not-to-be? I couldn't imagine.


I think it would be hard, but at least at that stage it didn't have consciousness yet. Even with that in mind, it would still be very hard.
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